On being Not a Pretty Girl

[shadesong]

So yesterday, I found that I'd been upsetting a friend, and one of the things they said struck a chord; they said that they felt like the Invisible Sidekick to the Pretty Girl who got all the Boys. I told them that it wasn't that kind of movie, but it started me thinking.

I have never been the Pretty Girl. Hush, iroshi, and listen. :) Growing up, I was the painfully shy child, the one who always ate lunch alone, hiding behind her book... the mousy-haired girl with big clunky glasses and a horsey face. Believe it or not, it's true; I have my Bat Mitzvah pictures to prove it. I was not just unattractive, I was *strikingly* ugly. Supremely ugly. And geeky. And friendless. I was the girl that got made fun of on the school bus. Every day.

Even as I got friends, I wasn't the Pretty Girl. Rose was the Pretty Girl. The boys we hung out with wrote her love poems and pined away for her; I was One of The Guys. If it was West Side Story, I'd have been Everybodys (later Anita) to Rose's Maria.

So. Left Florida. Went to that wilderness survival camp in Utah, and ended up spending my senior year in Utah.. where I was forced to come a bit out of my shell, because I was so Different. So I started to assume the force of personality that characterizes me today. :)

Got married and moved to NC, left him and moved to Vegas, and I guess that's where it really started. I was around people like myself, for the first time, really. Age 20. And people were *interested* in me. So I became The Ho. You know the Margaret Cho routine: In any group of three girls, there's the Smart One, the Nice One, and then there's the Ho. I was the Ho. :) I was just in such a constant state of disbelief that anyone would find me attractive that I pretty much screwed everyone who did. And I came out of my shell more, and I started to become who I am now.

Flash forward to the late 90s... I was talking to Rose's friend Liza, who is, to this day, the single most beautiful woman I have ever met. And she characterized me as a flirt which, honestly, I had never really heard before. So I denied it, and she laughed and told me that I was the biggest flirt she knew. I just raised my eyebrows. Some days after that conversation, we were in a coffeehouse, and some guy just came up and started talking to us. This happens to me a lot; people talk to me out of the blue and tell me their life story. So he told us his life story, and eventually he wandered off. And Liza turned to me and said, "That was flirting." And I said, "Ummm, no - I was just listening." And she said, "That's what flirting is! You're listening to these people, really listening, really interested - not just waiting for your turn to talk. That's flirting." I'm still not sure about that. But that is what I do; I listen, and when I meet someone, I am genuinely interested in them. I want to know what makes them tick. I'm a talking-til-3 AM kind of girl.

So at some point, my listening and my eager embrace, physical or emotional, of people... that became "flirting". And because people are drawn to it... I still won't say I'm a Pretty Girl. But I'm starting to be That Girl, the one with the nifty clothes and all the friends and the harem. And I sometimes get kinda drunk on that, because I'm not *used* to it. I don't know how to be it. The person that I upset last night told me that I had a very big shadow for such a little person. I don't want to have a big shadow - I want everyone around me to shine. Everyone is shiny to *me*. I don't want to make anyone feel overshadowed. But I don't really know how to control the force of the charisma thingie.

So. I'm sorry. I'm still learning. Do y'all see now why this is so weird to me?

Comments

[deza.livejournal.com]

Get out of my head!

Growing up, I was the painfully shy child, the one who always ate lunch alone, hiding behind her book... the mousy-haired girl with big clunky glasses and a horsey face.
Hi, I'm Deza, welcome to Geeky Girls Anonymous... We'll have to compare sometime--I've got those pictures, too.

I was just in such a constant state of disbelief that anyone would find me attractive that I pretty much screwed everyone who did.
Yep, did that too.

Sometimes I wish I had been one of the Pretty Girls in school. Then I think about the one HS reunion I've gone to (ack, 15 year one is next summer), and all the Pretty Girls were changing into Bitter Housewives. They weren't pretty any more. I think I'd rather be listening to people now, when listening skills can be appreciated, than be used to relying solely on rapidly fading looks to get through life.

Course, I still wish I'd had a date to prom, too. :P

[songwind.livejournal.com]

I think your assessment of Pretty Girls in high school is pretty dead on. There are exceptions, of course, but most of the girls I knew in high school that were really pretty that early just.. aren't anymore. And it's not just the bitter housewives, but also the powerful professionals and pathetic spinsters. It's like anyone whose body looks like that so early grows *past* their beauty instead of *into* it.

I had always wished I was one of the Hunky Guys in high school, too. Apparently I managed it by my senior year but no one told me about for another two years. :P

HS Reunions

[melvh.livejournal.com]

When I went to my 10 year Reunion, I was stunned to see all of the "Beauty Queens" who had looked down on me so harshly had become dumpy pear-shaped women who'd obviously neglected their exercises after throwing too many pups. And their Star Athlete husbands were balding with various stages of spare tires attached.

I, on the other hand, was wearing clothes 2 sizes smaller than I had in High School & walked in on the arm of an 18-year old Boy Toy.

Revenge is sweet.

(Unfortunately, I won't be able to make quite the same entrance at my 20 year Reunion this year. Pity.)

[m0usegrrl.livejournal.com]

yes. ::hugs:: love you...

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

*hugs* I love you, too, cupcake.

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

Yesterday my mom told me that, overweight and unplucked and barely made-up as I am, I'm very lucky to have Clint, because otherwise I'd never have a boyfriend.

I think that was supposed to be a compliment to Clint, or congratulations on my good luck, or something.

[deza.livejournal.com]

There's a word for people like that. Starts with B.

Re:

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

*snerk* She wasn't doing it on purpose, I think. There's some truth to it anyway, I suppose, but that has more to do with the shallowness of other people than it does with my appearance.

which, by the way, I plan to model in an eventual lj pic starring the new custom-made Chinese blouses I'll pick up tomorow. ^.^ I'm sure that given the digital camera and a few hours, I'll find a photo I don't hate.

[voltbang.livejournal.com]

Not doing it on purpose doesn't excuse it.

[m0usegrrl.livejournal.com]

i would have slapped her for saying something as callous as that.

[gothwalk.livejournal.com]

I'm entering as close a state as I get to a bad mood here over html that just won't work, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, but: screw your mom, that's a rotten thing to say to anyone.

Re:

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, I realize that. *g* Poor Mom.

I hate HTML that refuses to behave, especially when it's for no apparent reason.

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

No offense, but your mom sucks. At least in the context of this one comment.

Re:

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

I love her but I don't want to live with her. ;p

[technomom]

I get the same kinds of comments from my family at times - they've always been absolutely amazed that a fat chick could attract ANY man's attention. But honestly, as I look back - I've never been without a man unless I just didn't want one. And during the one year "man vacation" I took at one time, there were always men around if I wanted to change things. And I'm way far from being a pretty girl at all.

[ga-sunshine.livejournal.com]

Stop that. You are beautiful. You emanate and exemplify pure Goddess beauty.

[elorie.livejournal.com]

yeah. What she said.

Look for an upcoming post about this whole issue in an LJ near you.

[skylion.livejournal.com]

she is pissed at herself and is taking it out on you. seen it.

Your mom is SOOOOO wrong.

[melvh.livejournal.com]

Well, I too am overweight & unplucked. And I NEVER wear make-up if I can help it. My hair is towel-dried & finger-combed when it isn't pulled back into a ponytail. And my features can best be described as plain.

BUT I HAVE NEVER LACKED FOR MALE COMPANIONSHIP IN MY LIFE!!!

NEVER!

In fact, many of my friends and lovers remain an integral part of my life. They are some of my dearest friends. And quite a few of them have told me that they would still enjoy sharing a physical relationship with me should I choose to go there.

Of course, the men (and women) I select for my lovers have more going for them than looks, themselves. I have discriminating tastes (with only occasional lapses.)

And all I can say is that if the men of your mom's acquaintance would really judge you entirely on your external appearance, then she's hanging out at the shallow end of the pool......

Re: Your mom is SOOOOO wrong.

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

I should point out that Mom hates men, as a rule. ^^;

Flirting?

[avivasedai.livejournal.com]

I went to a symposium for work a while back. I had my best work friend by my side and I was happy to be going to this event. There were cool subjects being presented. I sat, I was flanked by two coworkers, one left to get water. A guy, middle-aged man, sits next to the empty seat, we start talking. We sorta mutter comments back and forth during the presentation. We continue talking after the session was over, schmooze, la la la, other people go to lunch, we end up talking for another half an hour. I was getting up, put my bag on my shoulder, this guy was still sitting to talk. I was listening to him, we were both being tangential, discussed work concepts, traffic patterns around NYC, driving in other towns, random crap. I'm in a good mood and the guy is funny, smart, amusing. He says "I love your laugh." I freak out and redirect the conversation. We part for lunch, we're in the same session after lunch, he leaves for NJ.

My friend tells me as we go to the subway, 'my god, you were so flirting with that guy!' I adamantly refuse that assertion; I was NOT flirting, I dove *away* from flirting, not me! The guy wrote me the next day saying he was attracted to me; I wrote him back saying that is so flattering, but I'm not looking for that right now, let's just be friends, and he was cool with that.

I am not a flirt. I enjoy life, I enjoy talking with people and sharing the oddball tangents that arise, and if that's flirting, then ... That's just how I am. If I'm myself, uninhibitedly, with someone, it's going to be ... bubbly? If it's flirting, then oh well.

Re: Flirting?

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

See, things like that happen to me all the time - and I'm not *trying* to be flirty...

[yendi]

Heh. In an ideal (i.e., Marvel) universe, we could just build a Charisma Dampener. *sigh* Hank Pym's never around when you need him.

Love, you never deliberately abuse your power. I know this. And having known this part of your history for a while, I understand why it's so weird (although that won't stop me from the occasional frustration when you fail to realize how amazing you are).

The world needs to grow a brain about flirting

[pinballsorceror.livejournal.com]

I don't claim to know you on a truly personal level, but I suspect you and I have a similar mentality about human contact. I can't tell you how many times I've been dating a girl and had a genuine conversation with another woman, and have my girlfriend get angry about it. Now I understand if I were to sit up until 3 in the morning talking to another woman that may be grounds for worry, but I'm talking about the genuine connections we make on a daily basis. Like they say in fight club "When someone thinks you're dying... they really listen to you instead of waiting for their turn to talk" There is a difference between genuine communication/compassion and romantic intent. I think the idea that 'listening equals romantic intent' basically means "you listen only when you want something out of it" and that's a shitty equation.

[iroshi.livejournal.com]

Hush, iroshi, and listen.

I always listen, love. You should know that.

Growing up, I was the painfully shy child, the one who always ate lunch alone, hiding behind her book... the mousy-haired girl with big clunky glasses and a horsey face. Believe it or not, it's true

So was I, dear, so was I. (Hell, I *still* eat lunch alone, deep in a book or the computer...but not hiding. :) I was a very...I won't say ugly, but terribly *plain* girl. And my personality was ugly. I was an obnoxious brat with a temper. I know now what most of my problem was, but that's beside the point. I had very *few* friends, and never kept a friend for more than a year or two. Even in high school, when I started to get moderately popular. Right now I have friends, REAL friends, that I've had for 6 years, and that's a record. Mark is the only person I consider a friend who has been in my life consistently longer than that, and I was *married* to him for 11 years.

I understand being pretty being a new concept for you. It's a relatively new concept for me, too, and I'm not as pretty as you are. I still think it's something you're going to have to come to terms with. It doesn't do to deny reality, even something as personal as whether you're pretty or not.

As for flirting...listening isn't flirting. Flirting is...hrm, the dictionary definition isn't useful for contemporary usage. Flirting is discussion with amorous intent, either serious or not. Flirting is more than being nice. Flirting is engaging the hormones, either for real or pretend.

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

I know you always listen. I just wanted to stop the "yes, you are". :)

Re:

[iroshi.livejournal.com]

Well, but, yes you are! ^_^

I heard you out before I said it, didn't I? (Hard to interrupt when you're reading, but *still*...)

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

Hmph. I could *feel* you interrupting.

Re:

[iroshi.livejournal.com]

You sure that wasn't that little nagging voice in the back of your head that knows I'm right? ^_^

[morenasangre.livejournal.com]

I very muchly understand what you mean by growing up not being the pretty girl. That was me...you kidding I was the 'smart' girl, the one everyone else had write their love notes for them because they didn't know what to say. Then they beat the shit out of me on the playground because I'd served my purpose.

I didn't get friendly, I got distant. Learned to disappear or create my own space. Can still do it.

But for you, your charisma seems, from my angle, to be a double edged blade. You do listen well, you are a wonder at facilitating large groups of people and making sure that everyone feels that they're getting attention. But sometimes, in all of that, we lose you. And you are a very precious commodity too. You've admitted you're not good at talking about yourself, and the charisma facilitates that. I'd rather see the real you - sometimes the charisma is too easy.

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

*hugs* Thanks... I'll try hard not to get lost. I'm glad you want to see the Real Me... :)

[auryn29a.livejournal.com]

Reminds me of when I took a poetry class and someone wrote me a nasty note about how conceited I was because I critiqued her poem.

That description of flirting...I'll have to think about it. Because I'm not good at flirting. I didn't get it. I'm not sure if I do now. I used to think of it as deceitful, someone pretending to be interested in me. But it makes sense if it's just listening to someone...wanting to listen. I'll think about it.

[edie22.livejournal.com]

I was always the fat girl. The smart fat girl that people would talk to when they wanted something like help on their homework or to copy math homework from the night before. I don't know that I made a real friend until 7th grade. Everyone else wanted something. And I wanted attention so I let it happen. I can see it all through high school. But I never had anyone find me attractive. And when I did...well you know what happened there. I don't deal well with people flirting with me, or I don't know they are because I just don't recognize it. Or I flirt online because it's safe... but when someone knows what I look like and still flirts? I seriously don't know how to deal with that. And when people are still my friends and dont' want things? That's a little hard to get used to also.

So I know a little bit of how you feel. =)

[auryn29a.livejournal.com]

Amen, sister.

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

It's been my experience that Pretty Girls either (a) Know It (and have an ego the size of Texas, and 'tude to match, ugh), (b) don't (and don't know much of anything either), or (c) are very, very taken and monogamous.

Doesn't do well for fuzzy geek bear here.

On the other hand, there are the people (I see here in this thread, some of them) who when they finally got done growing up (which is only a bad thing when you're in the middle of high school and everybody else has already done all the growing they're going to do... a ROYAL P.I.T.A., for sure), turned out to be not only whip-smart, witty, and exceedingly interesting, but anywhere from reasonably to terminally cute as well. IMNASHO, 'Song ended up in that last category, from the looks of the sketches ;)

But anyway. So you've been kicked around for twenty-odd years of your life, and you end up in a new space with new people, and suddenly nobody's kicking you around anymore, they're all ga-ga over this gorgeous new person who at long last has got their swan feathers and isn't an ugly duckling anymore....

And it's tough! Fortunately for me I never had anybody bash the self-esteem out of me, but I have seen it in so many others... they don't want to believe that people want to be with them not just because they put out, or some other reason, but because they are who they are...

And I have to go get in the shower now, so I don't know if I've said all I want to here, but I kinda ran out of words...

But, yeah, 'Song, Mousegrrl, Iroshi, hell, anybody who finds themselves besieged with folks... it's real. You are Just That Good. Enjoy it.

And maybe I'll learn to do that too.

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

*hugs* Thank you so, so much... :)

[darkmattr.livejournal.com]

The difference between you and Liza, and I've met her, when she is listening, she IS flirting, when you are, you are just listening.

If that made sense.

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

It makes sense - and thanks. :) That's what I thought, too!

[crackerbob.livejournal.com]

I can only relate to about half of that.

I was the short, fat kid most of my life, and because of that and other situations in my childhood, I developed silence as a defense mechanism. Since the only attention that I received was negative attention, I decided I would just avoid attention as much as I could.

As I got older I gained a few more friends and started getting some positive attention, but I never really have gotten used to it. I'm still usually the quiet guy in any situation and environment.

That said, I can imagine the headiness that would result from developing my own little cult of personality.

[ga-sunshine.livejournal.com]

You are so pretty, don't even kid yourself. And people genuinely like you, that's why they want to be around you. Besides -- Ugly geeky smart kid disdained by her classmates is sitting over here!! Ugly FAT geeky smart teenager disdained by her classmates is sitting over here!!
And things only got worse from there, so I won't bore you with the details, but I will say that, hell, I still eat lunch alone, if I even bother to go some days. Maybe we should all form a support group, eh?

Geeks-United...

[skylion.livejournal.com]

i am trying to relate, and doing good at it. i was the geek, the damaged geek at that. and i was alone even in my own crowd. i still feel that way. I am trying to stop doing this so much. i think the key issue is leaving the past behind us, and making up our minds about what parts we want to keep with us from that past. that's a thought, and an imcomplete one at that, but it does help me sometimes. escape the crazieness of my own past. the parts I feel weird about.

flirting? everyone has thier own definition sometimes. i think you were just being nice.

[dorei.livejournal.com]

I feel like I've walked in on Romy and Michelle's High School Reunion. They were tormented by the popular girls, but they'd gone thru school tormenting Jeanine Garofolo, and she had gone thru school tormenting carmen manheim ...

But seriously ... when I was in school I was one of the loners. Or should I say losers? I was teased, insulted, bullied in elementary and middle school. I was shunned in high school, or at least 9th grade. When I went to boarding school for 10-12 grades I made a few friends.

However, it wasn't until I went to college that I discovered that I had the power to be whoever I wished to be. No one there knew me as the loser from NJ. I started to change things. Did I become one of the popular pretty girls? Hell no. I still was awkward at this flirting stuff.

However, somewhere along the line, I discovered that we're all pretty much the same. We have the same neuroses (or near enough), the same doubts, the same fears, the same dreams, etc., etc. I wasn't going to let my youth define my adulthood.

While I'm still my own person, I no longer look at that in the context of not "belonging" or being on the outside.